Pope Leo sees role as one of building bridges, avoiding polarization
By Salvatore Cernuzio
In his first full interview since his election, Pope Leo responded to questions on topics as diverse as the quest for peace in Ukraine and “terrible situation in Gaza”; to the role of women in the Church and the Church’s relationship with the LGBTQ+ community; to the clerical abuse and the reform of the Roman Curia.
The interview was granted to Elise Ann Allen for her biography of the Holy Father, León XIV: ciudadano del mundo, misionero del siglo XXI (“Leo XIV: Citizen of the World, Missionary of the XXI Century”), which published Thursday with Penguin Peru. Allen is a senior correspondent for CruxNow.com, an independent online Catholic news site, which published the full text of the interview with Pope Leo in a series of articles also released on Thursday.
The role of the papacy
Asked about how he sees the papacy, Pope Leo highlighted the “pastoral part” of his new role, especially the “outreach to people of all ages.” “I appreciate everyone, whoever they are, what they come with, and I listen to them… So, there’s an aspect of being pastor of the universal Church that I think is very significant, and I think one of the things people appreciate is that,” he said.
He said does not feel overwhelmed by the decisions that will need to be taken in the coming months and years, while acknowledging that internal Church governance is a big part of his role as pope.
What is new, he said, is his role as a world leader. “I’m learning a lot about how the Holy See has had a role in the diplomatic world for many years,” he said. “I’ve always tried to stay up on the news, but the role of pope is certainly new to me.” Here, too, he said, “I’m learning a lot and feeling very challenged, but not overwhelmed.
The tragedy of Gaza
One of the first questions for the Pope concerned the situation in Gaza. Even though there has been some pressure on Israel from the United States, and despite some “very clear statements” recently from President Trump, the Pope said, “there has not been a clear response in terms of finding effective ways to alleviate the suffering of the people, the innocent people in Gaza, and that is obviously of great concern.”
The Pope highlighted the needs of Gazans, and especially the children of the enclave. “They're going to need a lot of help, medical assistance as well as humanitarian aid to really turn that situation around, and right now it still looks very, very grave,” he said. “It’s just so horrible to see the images that we see on television, hopefully something will turn this around.”
Pope Leo worried aloud about growing numb to the pain. “That’s a sort of a human response,” he said, “because you can only stand so much pain.” Human beings, and especially Christians, must not grow numb and must not ignore the situation, he said. Instead, “somehow, we have to continue to push, to try and make a change here.”
The word “genocide”
Concerning the use of the word “genocide” with regard to the tragedy of Gaza, which is “being thrown around more and more,” the Pope emphasized that “officially, the Holy See does not believe that we can make any declaration at this time about that.”
He explained, “There's a very technical definition about what genocide might be, but more and more people are raising the issue, including two human rights groups in Israel have made that statement.”
Relations with China
Staying in the realm of geopolitics, Pope Leo was also asked about “another global actor,” China. He said that “in the short term, I will continue the policy that the Holy See has followed for some years now,” adding that he “in no way” pretends “to be wiser or more experienced” than his predecessors.
For some time now, he said, he has been “in ongoing dialogue” a number of Chinese people with various perspectives, and he is trying “to get a clearer understanding of how the Church can continue the Church’s mission, respecting both culture and the political issues,” while also “respecting a significant group of Chinese Catholics who for many years have lived some kind of oppression or difficulty in living their faith freely, and without taking sides.”
At the same time, he admits, “It’s a very difficult situation.”
U.S. politics
Asked about the significance, “on the geopolitical level,” of being the first Pope from the United States, Pope Leo responded by saying, “First of all, I hope that it will make a difference eventually with the bishops of the United States.”
With regard to “some of the things that have been said” about the U.S. episcopate and the relationship between the Church and politics,” the Pope said, “The fact that I am American means, among other things, that people cannot say, as they did with Francis, ‘he does not understand the United States, he simply does not see what is happening.’”
However, Pope Leo stated clearly, “I don’t plan to get involved in partisan politics.”
With regard to the relationship with President Donald Trump, the Pope expressed his opinion that “it would be much more appropriate for the leadership in the Church within the United States to engage him, quite seriously.” However, he said, “if or when there were specific issues” where it was possible to engage with Trump, “I would have no problem doing so.”
Pope Leo mentioned, as an example, Francis’ letter, issued near the end of his pontificate about the treatment of migrants, saying, “I was very happy to see how the American bishops picked that up, and some of them were courageous enough to go with that.” He explained, “I think that approach, in general, is a better approach, that I would engage with the bishops primarily.”
He later acknowledged that “the United States is a power player on the world level,” and said, “we have to recognize that, and sometimes decisions are made more based on economics than on human dignity and human support, but [we have to] continue to challenge and to raise some questions” to determine the “best way” to respond.
The Pope noted that Trump himself had recently stated that a meeting between the two was not on the agenda, but added, “his brother’s a nice guy” – a reference to Pope Leo’s older brother Louis, who was received in the Oval Office a few days after the Conclave. “One of my brothers has met him and has been very open about his political viewpoints,” Pope Leo confirmed.
Later in the interview, he speaks about his brother again, when describing his relationship with his family. He said he and his brothers, Louis and John, “are still very close, even though one is far on one end politically, we’re in different places.”
The abuse crisis in the Church
A large part of the conversation is dedicated to the “crisis” of clerical sexual abuse in the Church. Pope Leo acknowledged that it is a “real crisis,” saying “victims must be treated with great respect and with an understanding that those who have suffered very deep wounds because of abuse, sometimes carry those wounds for their entire life.
Pope Leo cites statistics showing that “over 90% of people who come forward and make accusations” are “authentic victims.” In other words, they do not make things up.
However, he said, “there have also been proven cases of some kind of false accusations,” and some priests have had their lives “destroyed because of that.” An accusation “does not take away the presumption of innocence,” the Pope insisted, adding, “So, priests have to be protected, or the accused person has to be protected, their rights have to be respected.” Still, he recognized, “even saying that at times is cause of greater pain for the victims.”
In any case, he continued, citing the “very good insight” of Francis, “the issue of sexual abuse cannot become the centre focus of the Church.” After noting that the “vast majority” of people committed to the Church have never abused anyone, he continued, “We can’t make the whole Church focus exclusively on this issue, because that would not be an authentic response to what the world is looking for in terms of the need for the mission of the Church.”
The Church’s approach to the LGBTQ+ community
The Pope was also asked about two of the “hot-botton” issues that arose in the Synod on Synodality: the role of women in the Church’s approach to the LGBTQ+ community.
With regard to the latter, Pope Leo explained that he does not have “a plan at the moment,” but added that he does not want “to continue to polarize or promote polarization in the Church.”
Pope Leo said he embraces Francis’ message of welcome to all, “todos, todos, todos.” “Everyone’s invited in,” he said, “but I don’t invite a person in because they are or are not of any specific identity. I invite a person in because they are a son or daughter of God. You’re all welcome, and let’s get to know one another and respect one another.”
Referring to the the Declaration Fiducia supplicans: On the pastoral meaning of blessings, Pope Leo emphasized that the document “basically says, of course we can bless all people, but it doesn’t look for a way of ritualizing some kind of blessing because that’s not what the Church teaches.”
He acknowledges that some people “want the Church doctrine to change, want attitudes to change.” However, he said, “I find it highly unlikely, certainly in the near future, that the church's doctrine in terms of what the church teaches about sexuality, what the Church teaches about marriage, [will change].”
Pope Leo notes that he has already spoken about marriage, “as did Pope Francis when he was pope, about a family being a man and a woman in solemn commitment, blessed in the sacrament of marriage.”
The role of women in the Church
Nor does he think the Magisterium will change the Church’s position on the ordination of women. Specifically with regard to the possibility of ordaining women as deacons, the said, “I, at the moment, don’t have an intention of changing the teaching of the Church on the topic.”
At the same time, Pope Leo said, “I hope to continue in the footsteps of Francis, including in appointing women to some leadership roles at different levels in the Church's life, recognizing the gifts that women have that can contribute to the life of the Church in many ways.”
The financial situation of the Holy See
Concerning the financial situation of the Holy See, Pope Leo said, “I don’t know how I’m going to handle it yet, but I’m getting some clear ideas.”
He points to several specific issues, including the 60 million euro profit reported by the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic See (APSA) in their 2024 financial report.” At the same time, he noted concerns about the pension fund for Vatican employees (“that must be looked at”) and how the Covid crisis affected the Vatican Museums, “one of the most significant sources of income for the Vatican.”
Pope Leo warned, however, that “we must avoid the kinds of wrong choices that were made in recent years,” mentioning the purchase of a building in London that became the centre of a court case that attracted “great publicity.” “How many millions were lost because of that!” the Pope lamented.
At the same time, he noted the “significant steps” already taken during Francis’s pontificate to impose a new system of checks and balances. However, he added, “I’m not saying we can relax and say the crisis is over. I don't think the crisis is over, I think we have to continue to work on this, but I'm not losing sleep over it, and I think that it's important that we communicate a different message.
Curia reforms
On the topic of the reform of the Roman Curia, Pope Leo noted that, “as in any human organization, there are positive things and there are things that need to be improved,” highlighting in particular the importance of “continuing to break down or transform the isolated manner in which each dicastery works.” He expressed concern about a kind of “silo mentality,” which at times has led to a lack of dialogue and communication, and has sometimes been a “great limitation and harm for the governance of the Church.”
The Latin Mass
Pope Leo also responded to the question of the “Traditional Latin Mass,” saying “part of that issue, unfortunately, has become – again, part of a process of polarization – people have used the liturgy as an excuse for advancing other topics. It’s become a political tool, and that’s very unfortunate.”
He acknowledged that he has not yet been able “to really sit down with a group of people who are advocating for the Tridentine Rite,” but said, “there’s an opportunity coming up soon, and I’m sure there will be occasions for that.” He added, “But that is an issue that I think also, maybe with synodality, we have to sit down and talk about.”
Fake news and Artificial Intelligence
Beyond the ecclesial sphere, the interview with Pope Leo also addressed issues including the prevalence of “fake news”, which he calls “destructive;” and the issue of artificial intelligence.
Concerning the latter, the Holy Father worried about “extremely rich people who are investing in artificial intelligence” while “totally ignoring the value of human beings and of humanity.”
“I think the Church has to speak up there,” he said, in which “extremely wealthy people” are investing, while completely ignoring “the value of human beings.” “If the Church doesn't speak up, or if someone doesn't speak up about that – but the Church certainly needs to be one of the voices here – the danger is that the digital world will go on its own way and we will become pawns, or left by the wayside.”
Asked about the problems of so called “deep fakes,” Pope Leo recalled being asked for permission to create an “artificial Pope” so that anyone could have a personal audience with the pontiff. “I said: ‘I’m not going to authorize that,’” and added, “If there’s anybody who should not be represented by an avatar, I would say the Pope is high on the list.”
Vatican News - English Section staff reporters contributed to this report. The full text of the interview, broken up into several articles, can be found on the Crux website, www.cruxnow.com.
